So how to arm my Grey Hunter Squads....musings on the new Space Wolf Codex

Well, as you can see from the below posts I'm slowly constructing a list for my Scars based on the new Wolf dex. While I think I've got a nice Cav list down, I'm still debating on my Grey Hunter squads. Basically, I want to add a Power Fist to my squad (As Ash has finally convinced me that you need a PF) but I'm not thrilled with a one attack Power Fist. With most things needing 4's to hit with your Power Fist, one attack just doesn't cut it.

So, for those unfamiliar with Space Wolves, the new dex allows you to attach a Wolf Guard leader (Elite choice) to each Grey Hunter squad if you wish, which has benefits as I'll list below....and downsides. If a Grey Hunter squad numbers 10 then you get a free second special....but if you attach a Grey Hunter to a squad of 10 you obviously can't jump in a rhino! So there's the rub if you want to mech up----2nd free special or Wolf Guard Leader? Same basic math first;

Grey Hunter:
Base cost 15 points
Power Fist 25 points
Total 40 points for a Grey Hunter with a Power Fist

Wolf Guard:
Base cost 18 points
Power Fist 20 points
Total 38 points for a Wolf Guard with a Power Fist

So you can see, that due to their cheaper Power Fist the Wolf Guard are actually cheaper than a nilla Grey Hunter. What how do the other benefits/drawbacks play out for Wolf Guard?

Pros:
9 Leadership compared to the GH 8. This allows counter-attack to go off more routinely and obviously helps with pinning/rally tests.
2 Attacks instead of 1. This means if someone charges you they'll be getting 3 Power Fists to their face.
2 points cheaper

Cons:
Giving up 2nd special weapon from the GH squad.


Now, considering the proliferation of mech armies that 2nd melta is pretty required in certain situations. So, I'm considering a compromise...taking a Wolf Guard with Power Fist and combi-melta. This only allows a one time shot with the 2nd melta which means I'll need to be conservative with when I use it. This also raises his cost slightly (43 points now compared to the GH 40) but I think his other benefits are worth those three points. Counter-Attack is pretty reliable at Ld 8 but it's really solid at Ld 9 (84ish% of the time will go off). There seems to be more and more pinning too in 5th, likely due to the multiple tests...so I grab what Ld I can. I also get 2 PF attacks base instead of 1, which on average equates to at least 1 hit.

So, in summary I'm going to run the Wolf Guard Leader in each squad with PF/Combi-Melta for now. Another option I muse over is saying to hell with a one shot combi....and taking two Fists! This would give me 4 PF attacks if I charge or get charged...and 3 base! In my normal Celestial Lion foot army, I do this with Terminator Wolf Guard leaders (They are actually cheaper than a dual PF power armor Wolf Guard, go figure). This army is Scars though, so born in the saddle, everyone gets a ride, etc...so no go there. Thoughts?

Adepticon 2010

Since Age posted his list I thought I would do the same. I plan on using my Chaos Marines and the only restriction I am going to use is......no lash! That's right, I'm going to leave arguably the best piece of war-gear in the codex on the bench. So with that, here's is my first draft:

1850 Pts - Chaos Marines Roster - Adepticon List 2010

HQ: Abaddon the Despoiler @ 275 pts

5 Khorne Berzerkers @ 105 pts

Chaos Land Raider @ 250 pts Daemonic Possession; Combi-melta

HQ: Daemon Prince @ 200 pts Wings; Mark of Tzeentch; Bolt of Change; Warptime

7 Plague Marines @ 284 pts Personal Icon; Meltagun x2;
1 Plague Champion with Power Fist
1 Rhino

7 Thousand Sons @ 286 pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer with Bolt of Change and Meltabombs
1 Rhino

3 Obliterators @ 225 pts

3Obliterators @ 225 pts

Total Roster Cost: 1850

This is the list I will begin play-testing. Thousand Sons are a unit I want so much to like, but I have a sneaking suspicion I will be trading them out for another unit of Plague Marines. This list is also a departure for me because of how few troops I have. It doesn't seem right but I want to get out of my safety zone a bit.

I'll keep you posted.

Ash

Adepticon List...maybe

So I'll be going, along with Ash to Adepticon this year. Last year we participated in the Team Tournament (As Team Opposing Forces, go figure). This year we're not doing the team tournament again but instead will be competing in the 40k Championships and Combat Patrol. Last year we used Combat Patrol as an ice breaker for Adepticon (Our first trip) and it proved great fun. Strange enough, out of a pool of 90 or so players and only three games....we ended up paying each other :). So, we naturally tied...considering we practiced our lists against each other this wasn't a tremendous shocker. Still, it was good fun.

Anyways, I plan on doing a heresy era army this year and will likely use the Wolves dex. I really think the Wolf dex captures the way Marines are meant to be played...and vanilla Marines are just plain boring after using this dex. I think I'm going the Scars route for my heresy army, with Custodes allies (Grey Knights)..... but will be doing mixed mech. I could do all bikes but reading up on the Scars, I learned they actually use all mech (Mounted only)....not really all bikes. So, Dreads and Long Fangs are out and everything needs a ride. Here is my first trial list;


The Great Khan
--Wolf Lord with Wolf Claw (Scimitar)
--Thunder-Wolf Mount (Heresy Jetbike)
--Runic Armor
--Warrior Born

5 Grey Knights
--Incinerator
--Brother Captain has Hood

10 White Scars (Grey Hunters)
--Melta
--Melta
--One model with dual chain swords (Mark of Wulfen)
--One model with Power Fist
--Mounted in Rhino

10 White Scars (Grey Hunters)
--Melta
--Melta
--One model with dual chain swords (Mark of Wulfen)
--One model with Power Fist
--Mounted in Rhino

10 White Scars (Grey Hunters)
--Melta
--Melta
--One model with Power Fist
--Mounted in Rhino

7 Relic Heresy Jet bikes (Wulfen Cav)
--One Thunder Hammer
--One Storm Shield
--One Melta Bomb

Custodes Land Raider
--EA
--Smoke Launchers


So, 1848. Plan is pretty simple, advance Rhinos/Land Raider with Khans Heresy Jet-Bike squad trailing. On the next turn, I can split into three combat blocks (Khan----Custodes Term----Jet-Bike/ThunderWulf squad) or stay into two mass blocks. So two hammers, followed up by 30 Marines with counter-attack/meltas and power fists.

I have some psychic defense with the Ld. 10 Super Hood ™. I should be able to handle hordes fairly well and have two hammers for elite HTH units. Only thing that concerns me is a Chimera congo line, as my firepower is midfield. Then again, I don't care if I lose against IG quickly...as I find them rather boring to play against ;). I guess I'll have more time to get another drink if I face that list.

My Celestial Lions Relic Bike Squad *Counts as Thunderwolf Cav*

Well, I've seen several posts concerning the new SW Thunderwolf Cav and considering I'm building my Lions around that dex.....and Thunderwolf Cav are so good, time to use something as a counts as. First, I can't get behind Astartes riding animals. I'm not knocking anyone that does it, I simply can't get on board. I even toyed around with the idea of doing Lion riding Astartes for my Celestial Lions....but I knew the He-Man jokes would be incoming! So, I decided I would use Relic Bikes as my counts as (Graciously converted by AshAxe). Initially, these were going to be used for another purpose and still will be...but that project is quite a bit out and I had to use the designs! So, here is my explanation;

Celestial Lion Relic Pride

The Celestial Lion Relic Pride rides extremely rare and sought after jet-bikes from the Heresy era. They are only called up in the most dire of circumstances by the Lion Chapter Master and one of these instances was during the Chaos Siege of the Lions Fortress Hive City. During this long campaign the Relic Pride was extremely battered and many of the rare bikes were damaged and lost but many believe it was their stalking counter-attacks that saved the city. Wave after wave of Chaos were turned back by their sudden swooping attacks and their deeds are still told to aspiring Astartes to this day.

The Bikes are rather unique in their operation and require a great deal of training to operate. The riders of these rare bikes have so honed their skills, the bike is basically an extension of their body thus they receive 4 base attacks. They are armed with a Lion Claw, which normally ignores armor saves but due to the awkward nature of operating the bike while attacking, only confers rending to the rider. Unlike conventional bikes, the Relic bikes require some time to attain speed but are devastating once they attain momentum and rather hardy to damage. Thus, the Relic bikes only move 6 inches in the movement phase but may fleet an additional 6 inches. In addition, the Relic bikes get a full 12 inch assault!

Fluff aside, the Lion Relic Pride follows all of the rules of Thunder-Wolf Cavalry.




So, instead of finding wolves or other animals to ride...I think it would be fun to think of technological counts as for Thunder-Wolf Cavalry as well. Considering how good this unit will be on the table-top, I'm sure we'll see some pretty unique counts-as coming from the net soon.

Cheers,
Ryan

Chaos vs. the Celestial Lions (With new Space Wolf Codex test)

Well, Mike and I decided to give the new Space Wolf dex another whirl this past weekend. It was his Chaos vs. my Celestial Lions (Counts as SW). I ran a different list this time around and made a few elite units of Wolfguard with my counts-as Logan. Mike ran his typical Chaos list, with a few variants thrown in (One of these variants played a major role!). Our army lists;

My Army:

HQ

Logan

Rune priest

Elite

Two Lone Wolves, both equipped with Storm Shield, Chainfist and Terminator Armor

Troops

8 Wolf Guard in rhino with 4 combi-meltas and a power fist.

9 Wolf Guard Terminators with Storm Bolter/Storm Shields (A few with dual power fists). One assault cannon.

10 Grey Hunters with Banner, melta-gun, flamer and one model with the Mark of Wulfen in Rhino

Fast Attack

2 Land Speeders with MM/Heavy Flamer

2 Land Speeders with MM/Heavy Flamer

Heavy Support

4 Las Cannon Long Fangs, 1 Heavy Bolter Long Fang

Predator with Autocannon and Heavy Bolters

Idea was to plant Logan in Long Fangs, giving them Tank Hunters or Relentless as needed, pop armor with the Land Speeders/Long Fangs and gobble whatever was inside.

Mike’s Army:

HQ

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with Wings, Warptime and Gift of Chaos

Daemon Prince of Slaanesh with Wings and Lash

Greater Daemon

Troops

9 Zerks, one with power fist, Rhino

10 Plague Marines, melta-gun x 2, rhino

10 Plague Marines, flamer, melta-gun, power fist, rhino

6 Noise Marines, Blast Master

Heavy Support

3 Oblits

3 Oblits

We decided to play a non-standard mission this week and tried one of the 40K Fight Club’s missions; Recover and Reclaim. This mission had a primary, secondary and tertiary as follows;

Primary: Each time a model ends its move in a piece of terrain, roll a d6. On a 5-6 that is the ‘objective’ terrain for the game. Normal rules to control at end.

Secondary: Recover a captured model in the enemy deployment zone

Tertiary: Kill points for vehicles/monstrous creatures only

I won the roll off and decided to setup and go first. I normally think ‘going second is the new going first’ but given that I had the ability to move my Fangs if necessary and wanted a chance to pop pre-smoke armor…I opted for 1^st turn. I setup in a solid line across the board with the quickest elements of my army on the flanks in case I needed to redeploy and my ‘power units’ in the middle of the board.

Mike blew my theory of popping armor all to hell by opting to setup almost all of his army in reserve. The only units setup where 3 Obliterators, a Plague Marine Rhino with Champion carrying Greater Daemon and a unit of Noise Marines behind his bastion. Our setups;

Celestial Lions Turn 1:

After Mike failed to seize, I began my first turn. On my right flank, I advanced my GH Rhino along with the 4 speeders. On the left flank, my Wolf Guard Rhino advanced along with my two Lone Wolves. My shooting phase was rather disappointing, as my 4 Land Speeders only managed to kill 1 of the Obliterators while my Predator wounded another. Logan gave my Fangs relentless to gain LOS to the Nurgle Rhino but fared little better and only immobilized the lone Nurgle Rhino.

Chaos Turn 1:

Mike advanced the two Obliterators and blew one of the closest speeders up. The Plague Marines piled out of the immobilized rhino and advanced, blowing up another speeder. The immobilized Nurgle Rhino glanced another speeder, removing its ability to shoot. As a side note, Mike’s Chaos Rhinos must spend the afterlife (Or undead life) practicing shooting speeders…because their ability to rhino/bolter a speeder is uncanny. Mike played aggressive here and instead of hiding in the bastion, advanced the Noise Marines around it to unleash a flurry of shots on my Fangs. Dice didn’t favor the aggressiveness however and he failed to wound a single Fang.

Celestial Lions Turn 2:

I advanced my GH rhino, popping the hatch and killing a couple of Plague Marines. My Wolf Guard Terminators advanced on the hill, downing another from their assault cannon. Logan gave the Fangs relentless again and walked over to gain LOS to the remaining Oblits, finishing them. One of my Lone Wolves was in assault phase and grabbed the noise marines, killing 3. They passed their fearless.

Chaos Turn 2:

Mike had some good reserve rolls, gaining his Zerks, the Tzeentch Daemon Prince, his Greater Daemon and Plague Marines. This left his Oblits and Slaanesh Prince in reserve. The Tzeentch Prince moved onto the board and promptly turned my Lone Wolf, who was trying to redeem his unit and himself in battle……into a farking spawn. Well, there goes restoring honor eh? Your battle brothers die, you try to make up for it…then get turned into a pile of goo that begins beating on your other battle brothers. It's GRIMDARK! Anyways, this saved his Noise Marines (Which was big for the blastmaster guy later). The Plague Marines on foot advanced and blew up my Grey Hunter Rhino, killing a marine. At the end of movement…the bastion turned up to the main objective.

Celestial Lions Turn 3:

Well that sucked. My Lone Wolf was now a blob beating on my Wolf Guard Rhino and there was a lot of power on the board. I was hoping for bad reserve rolls….but alas no hope. In addition, Mike had all his power next to the bastion objective, not good. Logan gave the Fangs relentless again and between their shooting with the Predator, downed the Prince! This put me back in the game, even though I had lost a Lone Wolf to the damn bird. My other Lone Wolf failed his terrain test and gave the Noise Marines another round of shooting. I went ahead and assaulted the foot Plague Marines, to save myself attacks in his following turn. We tied combat thanks to Mike’s incredibad rolling.

Chaos Turn 3:

Mike’s Plague Marines on my left flank got out of their Rhino and advanced on my Wolf Guard Rhino. His other group of Oblits showed and icon’d off the Zerk Rhino, huddling the bastion. Between the Plague Marines and Oblits he managed to blow my Wolf Guard Rhino, which opened them to assault. The Blast Master Noise Marine nailed my fangs, killing two and wounding Logan (He took one for the team). The Greater Daemon assaulted my WG…and I managed to fail 4 Storm Shield saves. In return I did 3 wounds and my Wolf Guard Terms stuck. The Plague Marines and the once Lone Wolf/now Spawn assaulted my Wolf Guard/Lone Wolf. This combat actually went well for me, as my Lone Wolf killed 3 of the Plague Marines before dying in glory…and my Wolf guard killed the spawn while losing 3 of their number Mike lost yet another Plague Marine to fearless saves.

Celestial Lions Turn 4:

Logan once again gave relentless to the Fangs, which moved back on the hill and killed 2 of the 3 Oblits left and wounded the 3^rd. My speeders managed to down two of the 3 remaining Noise Marines (blast master still there!). My Wolf Guard Terms finished the Greater Daemon this turn and consolidated towards the left flank bastion. My Wolf Guard in the middle traded blows with the Plague Marines, each losing a couple. My Grey Hunters on the right flank did well this turn, with my Mark of Wulfen Hunter putting out 6 attacks and downing 3 Plague Marines! Odd to win combat with Marines against Plague Marines…

Chaos Turn 4:

Mike’s Super Rhinos ™ continued their speeder death toll and downed another of my Speeders (Immobilization so it settled on the hill). His Slaanesh Prince came on this turn and lashed my Wolf Guard back 4 inches (This would be a crucial 4 inches though!). The damn Noise Marine Blast Master managed to kill another Long Fang this turn as well. The Zerks finally got out of their rhino and proceeded to roll 1,234 dice and tore my Wolf Guard in half.

Celestial Lions Turn 5:

Well, I figured time to focus fire on the remaining troops Mike had. I doubted my Wolf Guard Terminators would last so I could at least take away the main objective from him as well. Some very poor rolling this turn though, as between two speeders, my Long Fangs and a Predator I only managed to kill 4 Zerks and a Noise Marine. In addition, my remaining Wolf Guard Terminators failed their terrain roll (By an inch!) and didn’t assault the Plague Marines. Again, that lash from the prior turn proved costly. On the bright side, my Grey Hunters finished the Plague Marines on the right flank and consolidated towards the left.

Chaos Turn 5:

Mike really tore up this turn and lashed my Wolf Guard into the Prince, the Plague Marines and remaining Zerks, killing all. Mike had removed all of my troops now, except the squad way down at the south of the table. Grabbing the bastion looked pretty grim (As did the game overall!). The remaining Oblit killed another Long Fang to add insult to injury.

Celestial Lions Turn 6:

Well, my RunePriest failed his second Perils this turn and his head exploded. So my turn began with the proverbial ‘bang’. I split Logan from the Fangs this turn and charged the remaining Zerks, killing them all. The Fangs and remaining speeders failed to inflict a single wound on the remaining Plague Marines (Which had a damn melta gun in it). Logan only had two wounds and was in the open, not good. The Grey Hunter group moved up and bolter’d the Prince, along with the Predator inflicting a single wound.

Chaos Turn 6:

The Oblit fired at Logan this turn….hit…..rolled a 1 to wound! The Plague Marines begin falling back to the bastion and pumped a melta shot into Logan, along with some bolter wounds. Some tense rolling but Logan managed to make it out with one last wound. Slaanesh went after the remaining Grey Hunters and killed a few. They tried to run but were caught, suffered another wound.

Celestial Lions and Chaos Last Turn:

I’ll combine our turns on this one, as Logan finished the Plague Marines and the Prince finished the Grey Hunter squad. Not a troop for either side left on the field. I had Logan with one wound, a Predator and 2 Long Fang las cannons. Mike had a Slaanesh Prince with two wounds, an Oblit with a wound and 2 Rhinos.

End Result:

Primary: Nobody claimed

Secondary: Nobody claimed

Tertiary: 4-2 Chaos

Chaos win!

My Thoughts (Celestial Lions):

Well, another real bloodbath. I really like the way the new marine dex plays. Can get in their face to rapid fire and not flinch so badly when counter-charged. Mark of the Wulfen definitely seems worth it after 3 games now and the squad banner gave me boost in combat as well. I’m not so keen on the Wolf Guard Terminators though, albeit I saved all my storm shield saves. Dual fists put out the hurt but I think burying them in 18 point power armor Wolf Guard units or perhaps lending them to foot Grey Hunters is the way to go. I’ll experiment with that this weekend.

They definitely don’t mech as well as Vanilla Marines. My Vulkan lists feel more powerful when played but are MUCH more boring compared to this dex. Sit in a rhino and melta marines are only fun for a few games….

I don’t know if the Long Fang + Logan combo is worth it. Yeah they put out the hurt this game but for their cost….they should! Oh well, it was a blast of a game even though I lost. Real nail biter with a lot of dice being tossed…kind of the reason we play the game….

Mike's Thoughts (Chaos):

That, was a really fun game. I really like facing off against the new Space Wolves codex. If I feel the need to field my Castellans again, I may play them as Space Wolves for the same reason I liked Chaos over Vanilla Marines; the ability to mix it up in close combat. Space Wolves can really dish out the pain.

From the beginning of this game, I felt as though I was back-pedaling. My initial plan was to load the left flank and take out the speeders as quickly as possible. First turn went well enough for me with what I had on the table. The objective popping early changed my plans and my units on the left were on their own. I reinforced the objective and towards the end I felt the momentum shift in my favor but only slightly. The primary objective did really come down to weather I could take out Logan in my shooting phase to allow my last unit of PM's to run to the objective. Alas, that wasn't to be and so my last turn I went after the tertiary objective.

About my Force:

I don't know if I like the Greater Demon over a Champion with a powerfist. I had to start a unit of Plague marines on the table to make sure I had a vessel on the table in case I got him on turn 2 which was the case. I also really missed that powerfist in that plague marine squad as that unit didn't have the punch it usually has and led to their demise. But the Greater Demon did do admirably tying up Ryan's terminators for a couple of turns, buying me some much needed time, and thinning down the squad. Jury is still out as I need to play a few more games with him before passing judgement.

Gift of Chaos. Could be over-the-top powerful but I like Bolt of Change for the ability to pop a transport then assault with my Daemon Prince, which I have actually even done with land raiders on a couple of occasions. Still, worth playing around with some more.

Overall, my list(s) really lacks shooting. With only three shooting units total, I tend to rely on close combat heavily. I don't want to add another unit of Oblits as that is kind of bland, effective, but bland. I do have a Vindicator but my success with it has been almost nill except versus Tyranids. I may have to try out a Defiler now......

Thanks for the Report and game,

Mike

As an aside, if anyone has an opinion of how better for us to present the reports (narrative style vs. story-style, pictures, etc) feel free to share in the comments. Thanks for reading.

Ryan